Last Saturday night, I attended mother and daughter learning with my child. She’s seven. She’s also bright and delightful.
While we could learn anything we wanted (and I had brought No Greater Treasure for that purpose), the official assignment was to learn Pirkei Avot, Ethics of the Fathers. We picked up a copy of the Artscroll Children’s Pirkei Avos, finished the first few mishnayot and then she wanted to go further. So we did.
That’s when we got to this piece.
My daughter read this and looked at me. She had questions:
“What is Gehinnom?”
“Is Totty not supposed to talk to you?”
“Will Totty be punished in Gehinnom?”
I was caught off guard. I had come out to have an enjoyable bonding experience with her, not to assure her that her father wasn’t going to hell. I was especially upset because I was slammed back into a memory. It was of having met Heshy’s friend Shmuly at a cafe in Boro Park some time before I got married. We were at the cafe chatting animatedly and this man came over to us and hissed (I don’t exaggerate) אל תרבה שיחה אם האשה. I guess the idea of not embarrassing people in public didn’t apply? I turned red. Shmuly, bless his heart, retorted (in my memory, I could be wrong), “She’s my sister.” Shmuly, I’ll be your fake sister any day. ;)
I digress.
What I should have done is asked my daughter what she thought it meant. Instead, I hemmed and hawed and offered some half-baked attempts at resolving the issue. The difficulty is that, of course, this mishna is really talking about lewd or sexual matters. The idea that men would discuss this with women was not a concept I wanted to introduce to my child. (Note: This is not because I don’t want to talk about sexuality itself with my child- I’ve explained everything in an age-appropriate way. Last week, when we learned parsha, we talked about the ways in which a child maidservant goes free, including getting her period, and why that would release her from service. My daughter has already determined the reason that a man can marry two women but a woman can’t marry two men is because “They would never know whose child is whose! How would they know who should be a kohen?” She’s very logical. No, she didn’t get that from me.)
Anyway, her conclusion after reading the mishnah was, “I don’t think this is true.” (Great job, Artscroll.) She then discovered the footnote and read it; she decided that since her dad talks to me about Torah he’s safe.
She moved on, but I didn’t. I was upset that here my daughter is trying to engage with her Jewish heritage, and instead the message she’s receiving is that it devalues her.
I talked to a few people, including my father. His measured response was best. “It’s a poor translation,” he said. I asked how I should explain it to her, and he suggested giving her an example she would understand about something that would be “silly” to talk about between boys and girls, maybe the layout of the bathroom stalls in their respective restrooms. I mentioned it to her, she laughed her head off, and all was well.
Today I was flipping through various sefarim in my basement (Heshy has made it a personal mission to rescue every single Jewish book in existence, and it both irritates and entertains me that there are so many books I can never find anything) when I found Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch’s siddur. I happened to flip open to his translation of Pirkei Avot. I liked it much better, and I’m including it below.
Yose ben Yochanan of Jerusalem says: Let your house be open for relief and let the poor be members of your household. Do not engage in too much idle talk with women. This has been said with regard to one’s own wife; how much more does it apply to the wife of one’s neighbor. Accordingly, the Sages said: He who engages in too much idle talk with women brings trouble upon himself; he neglects the study of Torah and will in the end inherit Gehinnom.
(Just the insertion of the word “idle” is already better. Artscroll could have used the word “foolish,” i.e. “Don’t engage in foolish talk with women.”)
Here’s Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch’s commentary:
We are not told תרבה דברים or אל תדבר הרבה, “Do not talk too much with your wife.” As a matter of fact, the sayings of the Sages are replete with maxims stressing the high esteem in which womanhood should be held, the respect and honor due one’s wife and particularly the great importance that a husband should attach to the views, opinions and counsel of his wife. And especially in this context, where we have just tread about the virtues of helpfulness, charity, kindness and hospitality which should emanate from the home and hence are so greatly dependent on the work and cooperation of the wife, the statement should not be construed in any way derogatory to her. In fact, this very statement may well be founded on genuine appreciation of the vital role played by both husband and wife in the discharge of the task to be fulfilled by the home. Sichah does not mean serious conversation but merely idle talk and gossip. Cf. sichat yeladim (3:14) and mi’ut sichah (6:6). A man who truly respects his wife will have more to offer her than just trivial talk and idle chatter for her amusement. He will want to discuss with her the serious concerns of life and will derive enjoyment from the resulting exchange of views and counsel. Moreover, engaging in trifling talk with other women and other men’s wives may imperil moral purity. מכאן: From these passages was derived this maxim, according to which indulgence in more idle chatter than is seemly even within one’s own household may gravely jeopardize the spirit of earnest duty and study to which life should be consecrated.
-page 423 of The Hirsch Siddur, published by Feldheim in 1972
I’m going to write a polite letter to Artscroll. I think we need a Rav Hirsch inspired children’s translation of Pirkei Avot.
Fewer traumatized daughters that way.
Yet another reason to to avoid Artscroll translations.